Curse

Lordhelmos · Jun 30, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Lately theres been a huge problem with the community thinking that classes are gears towards SPECIFIC roles that are set in stone. Being an experimenter with many non-meta builds myself I'm seeing this reoccuring problem of party leaders forcing others to tailor to specifc cookie cutter roles.

These people are idiots that are sucking the fun out of the game.

I'm tired of watching other players being treated like human crap because they want to smite instead of heal or do something out of the ordinary. I can't believe the community has degraded to the point where people are going to bash an ele for not playing an echo nuker or talk trash to a PvE monk who walks into a fight with Ivor's Staff.

It seems there is this age old mindset that specific classes are tailored no non-interchangible roles going around. A monk is supposed to heal, an ele just drops meteors, tanks take damage, rangers trap or interrupt, mesmers shut down.. etc etc.

Now im quite aware that in a party specific key roles ARE needed in order to have the group function effectively. Yes someone needs to heal, someone needs to take the front line, and someone needs to deal damage.

I just think that the community all together is being way to nazi about what roles people should play. They get angry and kick players or call them noobs if they dont have specific builds.

We are talking about a game that has 1000s of skill combinations. Things arent going to change or become interesting if you continually force players to taylor to specific builds.

It's ok to MAKE SUGGESTIONS to another players build but wrong to order them to play a specific role. If you are skeptical about a player's build ask questions nicely and make suggestions instead of bashing them or flaming because they aren't the usual boonprot.

Look I've mowed through thunderhead keep with a melee elementalist, a necromancer with barrage and a longbow, a mesmer/monk fast cast healer and protter, some wierd warrior with unyielding aura, and all sorts of other trippy stuff. Build surprises make the game more interesting.

Ask questions about a players unque build and give chances if the guy seems like he knows what hes talking about. I'm tired of the stereotype flaming that party leaders are unleashing on people because they want to try something different or seeing a damn good player being left out of a party because hes something unorthadox like a N/W.

I hope those sterotyping people read this and maybe change their attitudes about the way the play and treat other players. If they dont, I might have to bash some heads in.

Gwmaster · Jun 30, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

i remember wen i first made a monk he was called Cartman The Smiter(deleted)
everytime i went in to a team every1 was asking me to not smite blah blah, sometimes i didnt even had the time to tell them that i was healer ,since i was already kicked... i miss the first month of Gw alot

cuz people always wanted to team up and do things like farming drakes, quests and other things

pyrohex · Jun 30, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

This subject has been discussed about 193193414 times.

Lordhelmos · Jun 30, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrohex

This subject has been discussed about 193193414 times.

The problem is its getting worse. I am well aware that stereotyping has been and always will be around... but man... you can't play and not see how bad things have gotten in the last few month + the release of factions. I've been around since before sorrows keep. I think some of the morality of the community is cesspooling to an all time low, which is the only reason I decided to address the issue. The quality of the community, to which many can agree to is getting pretty nasty in comparison to what it was before and its still on this slope. Someone who has invested alot of time playing this game for enjoyment cant help to notice all of this and yea of course I'm worried about this. Just look at the degredation of HA and HoH? The threads about HoH being dead to everything but specific FoTM and players bringing that mentality out of the arenas and into PvE fields. To summarize, things are just getting worse and worse. Yes the subject has been addressed and will always be an issue, but I can at least say... man this is getting to the point where it is become rediculous. There are alot of people there that just play with hench now just to avoid all the BS. Anyone notice that its getting harder and harder to find decent parties? Especially after factions with more missions and goals, you would expect to community to grow but man, there are alot of ghost towns around now and thats some scary scary stuff.

Anet out of all people should be worried about this.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 30, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

its getting worse especially due to sins, considering as we sins are trying to fix the sins we are also pushing them into another type of build, community and us hates em for tanking (kills plenty of builds), and we in the sin community are pushing other sins to do complete hit and run :\ I admit we have a problem.

Thom · Jun 30, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Few points.
1) Some builds are extremely efficient and therefore desirable.

2) Some builds are really bad.

3)Some players are really bad and play horrible builds because they don't know any better.

4)Good players playing odd builds are indistinguishable from bad players playing bad builds.

5)One bad player can mean the difference between an normal run and a difficult run.

6)Many party leaders are forming a party and have specific designs for that party.

7)Kicking a player who does not fit the roll you need (minion master, healer or nuker) is acceptable. Smiters can't heal and blood spikers don't raise minions. Often when a leader invites they are looking for a role not class.

8)It is reasonable to ask a player to make a specific build and kick them when they decline. If a person can't do what you are trying to do, you don't have an obligation to keep them. I'll normally ask for damage, tank, nuker, interrupts... and if you can fill what I need, I have no reason to keep you.

9) If you are on a non standard build, look to fill the roll that people are requesting, not the class. If you want to smite, pm people looking for an elementalist. If you want to heal with a mesmer or elmentalist, PM people looking for healers.

10) Please don't add some sort of moral tone to something incredibly utilitarian. Monks are best at healing/protection over any other role. Hit and run assassins are most effective. Minion Master is the necro build that best helps the team in PvE. The fact that people want something that is efficient anrd reliable is hardly a condemnable offense.

11) Realize that your build, while it may be efficient for you, may not be a good option for the team. A special tanking assassin may exist, but there isn't any reason to take that build over proven warrior tanks. An elementalist or necro using melee skills is a good way to drain a healers energy bar.

12)Remember that you are in a party at the pleasure of the group leader. If you don't like that fact, you are free to start your own group. If you don't like how a group is being run, you have the option to leave.

Burns2003 · Jun 30, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Look, I am okay with creative builds. May it be W/E with rides the lightning or Necro with barrage, I am fine with them. The problem is the player must know/experiment with the new build he/she has created and know what he/she is doing !!!

I am sorry to say that most of fun builds I have seen simply deal too low damage. Recently this has become increasingly frustrating for me as I am looking out for people to form "master" team. To me, the most important criterion for choosing team member is to filter out the "player with no determination and expertise". I mean, the master reward is called "master" simply because it is not for everyone. For example, yesterday I have teamed with a beast master with a UW spider. While I understand that there are uncountable number of superior beast master builds, his build is simply not one of them. Instead, his build consists of practically no defensive / pet healing skills, resulting in his pet dying in almost every battle.

Yet he is JOINING a master only group in hope of leeching the group expertise. So my view for fun builds is this: they are okay provided if you restrict them to the "fun/relax" way of playing mission (i.e. players who are completing a mission and count master as a bonus). In an elitist group, we are looking for the professional.

Caleb · Jun 30, 2006, 08:12 AM // 08:12

The simplest solution I can offer to you is this:

Create your own group. You cannot be bullied by the group leader, if you lead.

Greedy Gus · Jun 30, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Henchies don't discriminate.

Tryll · Jun 30, 2006, 09:24 AM // 09:24

I can understand why certain builds are desired in some instances, such as missions, especially in Factions where time is of the essence when trying to get that sought after Masters Reward. Many players are very impatient and seem to want to speed through the game like there's no tomorrow. That's fine, I'll reskill. What annoys me are the players who don't even give you a chance to reskill while the rest of the group are spamming "gogogogo!".
I'm very open-minded when it comes to groups if I'm leading as I love diversity and variety. I'm in no rush to get all my missions to Masters first time round. As long as we have a tank and some healing (regardless of which class is doing it), the rest of the team can pretty much do whatever build they desire, as long as it helps the team or hinders the enemy in one form or another and as long as each person knows what they're doing (get used to your build before trying to join a group). e.g. If you want to play a melee caster? Fine, just let the tank do the tanking. That's why they have high AL and absorb runes

The problem with smiting monks is simply that there is such a lack of healing monks out there at the moment. I've done missions without healing monks before. The trouble is that most random groups don't play nearly as well as they could with a bit of patience, either due to silly aggroing, rushing or just bad leading. I feel like screaming sometimes when the leader just clicks "enter mission" before even thinking about team tactics. These are all reasons why alternative builds get a noob label slapped on them so much.

Psykewne · Jun 30, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

My honest answer to this problem is "deal with it"... people won't change despite the fact that they suck the fun out for other people. To them all that matters is keeping a high efficiency in their farming.

I only farm alone so I only worry about my own build, if i play with other people its for fun and we play weird builds when we do. If someone wants to tell me i MUST play a certain build in order to party with them, they can go whistle for all i care, i'll take hench, they don't bitch because i didnt bring echo nukes on my ele or some stupid stuff...

But honestly discussions like this dont work... one side will say they tell people to play a certain way because its the "best" way or build (and technically they could be right when it comes to certain small group farming areas), other people will say there is more than one way to do things (which is also right, you dont always need to spam till you have two human monks to do things for instance... raisu palace with nothing but one rit for healing ftw!) Both sides are right within their own field and style of play...

So in summing up, deal with it, cause discussing it only ends up in flaming or hurt feelings from what i've seen...

Merlin Munk · Jun 30, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

I play all differnt builds I can create. My thought is that there is no bad build as long as you know how too play it. Sure some Teamleaders dont like it and want specific builds in team, but thats not my problem. My monk always gets invited too teams, with standard frase "LF Monk too go" "6/8 need monk" and so on. Thats fine cause that means they accept Smiters right? WRONG, they flame you so much, HELL would have been a cooler place. Too all Teamleaders, If you want specific builds tell people that in chat when recuiting. If you are not specific, then u accept the players build as it is. If a player joins and you asked for a specific build then you have the right too kick that player. But not otherwise. And I belive that kicking a player without telling him/her why is even worse than a leaver in mission.

Well thats my opinion anyway.

Merlin Munk

Kern Wolf · Jun 30, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

If you're going to experiment with different builds (I know I do), I would suggest taking henches 1st. My reasoning is this: if your experimental build fails, you won't want to deal with the grief from the rest of the party about it (and, be fair; regardless of the build, I think all party members have certain expectations about other party members--a monk should heal, regardless of his/her build; an ele should do some kind of AoE damage, regardless of build, etc.) If your experimental build doesn't work, it's not fair to the party group.
With a hench group, you're able to tweak that experimental build. When you got it working, then join a group, knowing that you've got your new build under control. Ask what the other people are bringing, skill-wise, and see how that works with your new build. if you come through with flying colors, you can always let them know that you tried a new build.
When I form PUGs, I go under the assumption that people know their skills, and what they're doing. It really doesn't bother me if they're trying a new build, or a new skill (quite frankly, most of the time I'm curious to see their new builds myself!) I'm about having fun; I have a day job, so I don't need stress in a game...

Cybah · Jun 30, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

I played in a group with 2 word of healing monks yesterday and I died several times even when they had 4 seconds to heal me. There are many bad players with "good" builds.

With my monk I've tested a heal/prot build with mark of protection some days ago and it works great... got kicked from a group when I told my build. That's really annoying and damn stupid from those people.

And I want to reanimate a smiting monk, but try find a group as smiter^^
0% chance, not even 1% chance.

That really suck. I hate that behavior.

I totally agree with the op, something has to be changed.

quanzong · Jun 30, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Smiting monks in group? Worthless. monks are meant to heal and to protect not to fight. If you want to fight, go make yourself 55 monk.

Cybah · Jun 30, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

not really worthless, they deal always full damage with smiting attacks. and they can add balthazars aura on warriors and so on...

quanzong · Jun 30, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

ok when you play HA do people attack warriors? Do you think most people would continue to attack someone with balt aura?
In HA I dont think so. Monks = healing = valuable
Monk = fighting = worthless

makosi · Jun 30, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I've been playing Random Arenas for a while with my own (non-googled) build and I'm amazed at how many people have rage-quitted because they didn't understand it. Just because you're not a wammo, boon-prot, migraine or touch-ranger doesn't mean you're ineffective. People are scared of different things because its out of their comfort zones. Looking at the bigger picture of human nature, that's why we have racism, homophobia etc.

Cybah · Jun 30, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

well I'm talking of pugs (pve)

Ariana Of Damia · Jun 30, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Well as many @ssholes as there are out there, there are also very good people who are willing to help and dont care what class you are.

Find a good guild and play with guildmates if you can't find any decent people

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